should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm...

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Tomakze
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should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm...

Post by Tomakze »

I just finished rebuilding my entire front suspension and steering on my '68. and wow, does it drive nice! (all new shocks, used but good ball joints, tie rods, center link, and upper spindles: all with polyurethane dust boots!)

so now the brakes are the next focus. they are in DIRE need of attention! I bought a front brake caliper rebuild kit (the minor kit from Datsunparts.com) but i have never rebuilt a caliper before, and i dont really know what is involved. If someone knows of a good write-up, or just wants to give some friendly knowledge here, i would appreciate it. I have been told that i need to hone out the brake cylinders, but i dont know where i would get that size hone. someone also told me that was unnecessary... so please enlighten me! right caliper is leaking horribly, and the car veers left when i hit the brakes hard. i do know the right caliper works, however, because i used it to remove lugs after forgetting to break them loose on the ground (opps...).

I also need to address the rear drums. i haven't had them apart yet, so i have no idea what shape they are in, but i do know that the e-brake doesn't hold the car at even a very slight slope, but it pulls up with a huge amount of pressure. also, if i am slowly braking (like coming up to a light) i can barely hear a slight grinding sound coming from the right rear drum. the e-brake used to work better (although it has never been great.), and i believe this sound is new.

after finishing the suspension rebuild, we took the car for a mountain cruise to celebrate. 77.4 miles in the rockies! it was a blast, and the car performed beautifully. the brakes work extremely well considering. i had to stop quickly at one point, and my companion and i were shocked at how hard and fast the car stopped. if it wasn't for our seat belts, i would have tasted the windshield, lol. i am looking forward to the car having good brakes.

btw, i have a brand new master cylinder in the car, but it it for a datsun B210. (dual reservoir 3/4 bore) I was told it applies to much pressure to the rear, i dunno if that helps. i might consider a brake balance proportioning valve to fix that some day. right now i dont notice a thing. (bad brakes maybe?)

thanks for all the info, sorry for the length!
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by ttyR2 »

Check out http://www.311s.org/PDFs/ClymerDatsun16 ... al32MB.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has info on rebuilding disk brakes about 2/3's the way through the manual. Hone the cylinder only if there is pitting, and only hone just as much as needed. Lube the piston seals with fresh brake fluid when putting it back together. It's not that difficult to do a brake job.
Jeremy

1964 Datsun 1500 SPL310
now sporting a '67 R-16 and 5-speed
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Tomakze
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by Tomakze »

Holy cow, this is mother load of good information! I can honestly say i did not know about that link, thank you. I ran out of ink printing pages i need for upcoming work. (i didn't print the whole thing, don't worry!)

so, is it likely i will need to hone them? and if so, where would i get the tools to do it? is it something i can get from autozone, or should i call my Matco guy? also, what size hone do i need?
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by ttyR2 »

Most auto parts stores will have one. Just measure the bore of the brake caliper and get one that fits.
Jeremy

1964 Datsun 1500 SPL310
now sporting a '67 R-16 and 5-speed
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23yrRebuild
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by 23yrRebuild »

Flex Hones are easy to use.
Last edited by 23yrRebuild on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by gpdatsun »

There are a few tricks to rebuilding the front calipers.

Work on one side at a time. Make some indelible identifying marks to remind yourself of the original orientation. The pipe flanges (bubble and flare) differ and it is easy to mistake on re-assembly if you don't keep the caliper halfs correct. Mismatch will leak and possibly damage the flare on the pipe or seat in the caliper. (Especially if you remove the bleeder (don't lose the ball) and no longer have that as a reference!)

A few days before you begin, shoot penetrating oil on the pipe connection nuts, (where the pipe enters the nut) and exposed threads into the caliper. Consider buying a set of flare nut wrenches.

With the caliper off the bridge, I use compressed air to "pop" the piston out of the caliper. Wrap it in a rag, put your air gun tip into a line fitting and "pop". Works great!

Clean up the inside of the cylinder and the inner piston. Remove the old seal off the piston (grab with needle nose and pull off) and any remnants of the dust boot. I use green scotchbright lubed with brake fluid to remove corrosion, not a hone (You have the pin there...now you can just remove it...I do on the calipers on the race car, makes re-assembly easier.) You don't need to go hog wild in there; just try to smooth the corrosion and provide a clean surface for the new seal. Badly pitted calipers may require sleeveing, because you really can't remove material (increase diameter) and still seal the piston.

Use the red lube to lightly coat the cylinder walls. Put a new seal on the piston by hand only this time (no tools) and put some lube on the outside edge. Place the piston on the pin and press into place (this is the hard part).

Note and turn the piston so that the outside (pad side) of the piston "flats" are in proper orientation/alignment to fit properly back in the bridge. Put on a new dust boot and circlip.

Repeat three times....now you're a pro!
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by spl310 »

I know that some racers use the Z rotors and calipers. Has anyone tooled up to make the caliper mounts for that conversion?
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by Tomakze »

Thank you Bill! that was the reply i needed. excellent information, and extremely helpful. I will let you guys know how this goes, as i will be starting this process next week. I am looking forward to yet another dramatic improvement in the performance of my little baby.

I would be very interested in Z rotors and calipers, i really want to convert the rears to disc, but haven't spent much time much time researching options. I have a parts car '84 turbo 300zx, but it has the 5 lugs on it of course. i considered a conversion, but i believe it would be to big of an undertaking. a 5 lug roadster would be cool though! plus, the parts are free!

-Tom
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by DnCrs13 »

Tom,

Thanks so much for posting this question. I have the exact same project that I have been trying to put off. My car dives for the ditch when I get on the brakes hard too. I was going to search the site for posts, but figured I would look at the new ones first. I love it when it works out that way. Even better is that Bill lives just a few minutes away, so I can call him when I biff it all up. LOL. Brakes make me nervous.
Dan
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by spl310 »

You know, it is funny, folks will spend tons of money on stereo equipment, seats, paint, etc. but will cheap out on the brakes. Yes, I will try to rebuild them, but if I can't I buy new.
"Wow, a Roadster!" Stuart Little

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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by DnCrs13 »

My car is far from show room, and will stay that way for a long time. I just want it to run right and have a blast, until I can afford to restore it. I am going to give this a try since it could save me a ton of money to do it myself, and because that is part of the fun, but I am not affraid to ask for help when it comes to something so important like brakes. That is where all the great people on the list come in.
Dan
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by 23yrRebuild »

DnCrs13 wrote:My car is far from show room, and will stay that way for a long time. I just want it to run right and have a blast, until I can afford to restore it. I am going to give this a try since it could save me a ton of money to do it myself, and because that is part of the fun, but I am not affraid to ask for help when it comes to something so important like brakes. That is where all the great people on the list come in.
IMHO,....EVERYthing you said, ...ALL good!
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Tomakze
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by Tomakze »

My car has come an extremely long way since i pulled it out of a field a year and a half ago, but it still has years of work ahead of it before it is even acceptable to me. a decade or more before it is "done". and frankly, thats exactly what i wanted. i love working on it, it is a serious stress relief for me. i decompress when i am under its hood. and of course, there is nothing like getting in when you are all finished and enjoying the fruits of your labor. "wow, it runs now!" or "holy crap, my steering works!" lol. I am looking forward to having good brakes!

I picked up a brake hone from carquest for about 20 bucks! only a few days to go, and i get to begin working! I decided that if the calipers are bad, i will do my best to rebuild them, (i doubt it will make them worse with new parts!) and then start saving for the 300zx conversion. I already have 15" wheels, and i plan on doing a motor swap this upcoming winter, so it makes sense to me. i believe my tax return is going to buy the 200sx rear disc conversion. i figure, the brakes work great now, so with a four piston caliper (ventilated disc, too... drool) up front and a disc in rear i aught to be able to eject my passengers. :) but for now, i am stuck with a rebuild kit and stock parts. hopefully all goes well!

and just for those that dont know what my car looks like... (I haven't gotten around to updating my signature... or avatar for that matter!) here is some eye candy... (or at least i think so!)

Image
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by DnCrs13 »

Damn! You pulled that out of a field?! That is a nice looking ride. I love the two tone, with the BRE style stripes. Nice work! Let me know how your brake job goes. I hope to do mine Sunday, or at least get started. If this rain keeps up, I will have plenty of time.

Mike, thanks for the props. These cars are all about fun, and boy are they!
Dan
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Re: should i fix my brakes, or just make my horn louder? hmm

Post by Tomakze »

Thanks Dan! but remember, pictures can be deceiving! one of these days, i will create a proper build thread, full of progress pics and videos. I have had my hands on almost every part of the car at this point, and i have tons of work to go.

the car sat in a field in colorado springs for two years, most of which it had no top. the earth had reclaimed it... weeds grew through the hood seams, and wrapped themselves around the axles. it was full of leaves and debris, up to the level of the seats. it was obvious that even before the car ended up in a field it had lived a hard and abusive life. I can not tell you how many crappy "repairs" i have had to sort out. plus, everything is just plain worn out. but despite all that, when i was looking at the car as it sat in its grave, i saw a shred of potential. we decided to see if it would start. believe it or not, the engine thundered back to life and ran rather well after a few shots of starting fluid! we aired up the tires, and "rippp!!!" the car pulled free from its resting place. i was astonished! it was obvious the car wanted a good home, so i decided to provide it one. i paid $1000 and drove it 110 miles home on the interstate! it was full of oil, never spit, sputtered, or overheated during the whole journey. on the other hand, the headlights didnt work, and i had no top... it was raining. after i got it home, i had a week of wonderful running, and then all hell broke loose. i have been fighting to keep her alive ever since. its almost as if the car knew it had to make the trip, just so it could win my affections and have a decent home. I am finally getting it to the point where i can rely on it. Ive had fun the whole way though!

the paint is junk, i just needed to cover some bare metal, and this was my solution. cost me a grand total of $6, lol. it looks good from a distance. a long distance!

I plan to start my brake job on thursday... i wish you luck, and let me know how yours goes as well!
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