Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

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st3ph3nm
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Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

A while back, we found that the suspension on my ‘68 Datsun 2000 Sports was seriously in need of attention. Whilst the rear springs were still semi-elliptic, the arc they described was a hill, rather than a valley! Consequently, the car was riding on the bump stops. Not particularly comfortable, though a few positive comments were made about the car’s stance on a club run! While we were looking at ride heights with a trolley jack, we also found that the front springs were sagging as well. A change had to made and while we were at it, it was decided that we take the opportunity to upgrade the suspension to something that would make it quicker around corners. It’s often noted that the Datsun Roadsters tend to oversteer, but I'd never been happy with the way that mine turned in, either (interestingly, a gentleman I met a few years back said the same thing, and he'd campaigned the ex-Doug Whiteford car here in Australia, later moving to a Lotus Elan). Whilst my car hasn’t seen any track time yet, it is certainly my intention to do so. More importantly, though, is the fact that my roadster is driven daily, on all sorts of roads, and most of my “enthusiastic” driving is on hilly back roads – not smooth race tracks. My roadster had to have some “give” in it, to absorb those nasty pot-holes and corrugations commonly found on Australian roads. If you watch a Targa style tarmac rally on those roads, you’ll soon see that circuit prepped cars tend to lift wheels mid corner, or skip around on bumpy sections. Neither is desirable when driving hard! After speaking to Lou Mondello about the experiences of various club members on tarmac rallies, I decided to try out something new on my roadster.

First, the springs. Springs keep the bottom of your car from scraping along the road, and they also control body roll, both laterally and front to rear. Looking for some serious cornering ability, we fitted 15mm, 780lb springs to the front – about 50% stiffer than standard. These have worked well, with less diving under breaks and great turn in, but it’s the rear end that is the key to this car’s improvement. The rear springs have been replaced with single, tapered leafs from a Volvo 360. Single leafs have been used in rally cars for a long time, and DSRC member Horton Poulter’s ’67 Bluebird SSS was greatly improved with them. Weighing about half of a standard rear leaf, they locate the rear axle better than a traditional leaf (no slipping between springs). The Volvo springs, however, are stiffer than the standard Datsun springs – so if you’re going to do this, you do need to upgrade the fronts to balance the car. Step two for my car was shock absorbers. Like many here, I already had Koni shock absorbers in my roadster. However, the factory valving that Koni set for the Datsun roadsters seems to be much stiffer in the rears than in the fronts - which sets up that oversteer problem, and doesn’t control the heavier front end very well. So the valving was swapped, front to rear, essentially.

So, the results. It’s hard, of course, to compare fairly between a sagged out suspension and new race setup, but fortunately I was able to drive a couple of other Datsun roadsters around the same time as we finished the changes on mine. The differences are instantly obvious. The new setup, very hard on the front and more compliant at the rear, makes the car much more willing to change direction. Quick left/right snatches (as through a chicane) are much faster, with less body roll and instant turn in. The rear end only comes out when provoked, and when it does, it does it with a lovely progressive feel. In short, the rear end is much more compliant, giving good traction even on bumpier roads. What surprised me, though, is how much nicer the ride has become from what it ever was. Bumps and uneven roads are handled with aplomb and railway crossings aren’t the terror that they used to be. All in all, an excellent result. Subjectively, at least. For more objective results, Alan Field’s car has since had similar changes made, and it seems to have had good results on the track.

There's been a fair amount of input from many people and sources (Alistair, the handling guru in Queensland, Lou Mondello, a number of rally teams, and some good books, including Carol Smith's "Tune to Win"). I’d like to thank them all for the way that my car has turned out, and turns in!

I'll post some photos over the next day or two, once I've taken them! :)

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by Daryl Smith »

Thanks Steve!
Volvo 360??
Were the mounting points changed, or by some miracle is this a bolt in item?
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st3ph3nm
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

The mounting points were unchanged, you need to retain your front spring eye bushes, and have someone put the bushes in the front, and reset the springs for the rear shackle. Then it's just a matter of lowering blocks to get the desired ride height.

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Steve
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by SLOroadster »

Hmmmm interesting. I will have to look into this. Never heard of a Volvo 360, but that is what the internet is for. Was this one of Lou's clever setups? I heard he does some trick Bilstein's off a Volvo P1800 for the rear. Do you happen to know the true spring rate for these single leaf springs?

Thanks for the post,

Will
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by windy311 »

I very good read Steve thanks for posting.Also if you get the chance to ride with Alistair do so, he took me for a spin one year at Dubbo man his car hugs the road.
Ps i was a little scared.he is mad behind the wheel.
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by Primm69 »

windy311 wrote:I very good read Steve thanks for posting.Also if you get the chance to ride with Alistair do so, he took me for a spin one year at Dubbo man his car hugs the road.
Ps i was a little scared.he is mad behind the wheel.
Rob
:lol: :lol: :lol:

He was best man at our wedding, and drove my wedding car (well, it was his wife's 67 1/2). Fortunately we only drove about 1km from the carpark down the road, and there were speedbumps. It was the most sedate I've ever seen him!

A couple of years ago we were driving down the Great Ocean Road, when Alastair and Lou were still in hush hush top secret development mode with the suspension setup. We saw a Volvo 360, and hubby commented that it was a potential donor vehicle for the sporty.

I responded with the expected "how the f(*&^ is THAT a donor vehicle?" But there you go, it's out there now.

For those of you looking in Aus, unfortunately the Volvo 360 was a car that was sold in very limited quantities, and is probably rarer than a Datsun Sports. Plus, when they'd done the development and before they told anyone what they were doing, Alastair and Lou pretty much stocked up with every available spring in Australia. So you really have to go through them to get it done. Fair enough though, they spent a lot of time and money working out the setup and testing various systems before they found the "right" one.
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

SLOroadster wrote:Hmmmm interesting. I will have to look into this. Never heard of a Volvo 360, but that is what the internet is for. Was this one of Lou's clever setups? I heard he does some trick Bilstein's off a Volvo P1800 for the rear. Do you happen to know the true spring rate for these single leaf springs?

Thanks for the post,

Will
That's a good question, Will. Because of the ride quality improvements, Lou actually thought they were less stiff than they are. After my car was done, another guy had them put in without upgrading the fronts, and the rear end was all over the place. Turns out they're about 190lb/in. Which is similar to the Nissan competition springs, I think, but because of the single tapered spring, it binds less and travels more easily. Behaves more like a coil spring, really.

Now, I've seen a single leaf on a mate's Datsun 120Y (had an SR20DET from hell in it!) which apparently came off a Volvo 240, but I'd imagine that they're much harder than the 360 springs. Might be worth checking out the rate, though - they're sure to be more common.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by Alvin »

I have to agree that the comp leafs are nice on smooth surfaces but mid corner bumps send you skittering! Very little travel. When I had an open diff any power applied on a decent turn would just lift the inside tire and spin.
st3ph3nm wrote:Then it's just a matter of lowering blocks to get the desired ride height.
Steve

8 years ago I ignored the advice of a wise Datsun guy who told me that soft in the back was better...so I turned to lowering blocks...

[rimg]http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/43646/1202793209060598812S600x600Q85.jpg[/rimg]

Those were the days!

post some pictures of your suspension or get banned :P
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by SLOroadster »

I need to do something with the rear end of my car. I can't put any power down at all. With 225/50/14s R compounds the car still lights the tires up off idle and just drifts around corners. It doesn't stick at all. The back end is way too stiff, its a handfull on the smooth areas, and holy crap through a rough corner. I've tried everything to get the back end settled, but have come up empty (aside from rearching the springs) My next move is to stick a set of stock rear springs on and not worry about them being too soft. I'd be interested in getting my hands on a set of these 360 springs however.

Will
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

I've taken some pics, but don't know how to get them onto the forum. Can someone PM me and tell me how to add photos onto the thread. Will, I really think this is the way to get some more traction. Not only are they lighter (less unsprung weight), they locate the axle better than conventional leaf packs, and don't bind up (as mentioned before.) Also, take note of my first post re. valve settings on the konis.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

Okay, here's the pics. I've posted them to the technical gallery.

This shows just how light and small the single leaf is. Note the tapering
from the centre to the ends. Also, you can see the lowering block.
It's not *quite* as low as Alvin's must have been! :shock:

Image

Now the front end of the spring:

Image

And the rear end. Now this is important. Apparently, not all Volvos are made the same,
and some 360's had a higher spring rate than others.
The one to get, ideally, is this one, with the spring eye "in line" with the centre line of the spring:

Image

Hope that makes sense, anyway. The spring kind of gets bent up before it rolls around the
bush.

So am I not banned anymore? :D

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by DJ-01447 »

Further to this topic, attached are two more shots of the new springset up.
Volvo spring - 1.jpg
Volvo spring.jpg
It's a great mod, and along with the other upgrades, transforms the car. :D
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by Daryl Smith »

Must be something here in North America we can find and adapt. Looks like some time to be spent looking around the JY and talking to a spring shop........
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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by dbrick »

It may be as simple to just have them made. IIRC spring shops start with flat stock and form the eyes and set the arc etc. Getting the proper specs may be enough to do it

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Re: Single leaf rear springs. (longish post)

Post by st3ph3nm »

You know, it's funny. I did this suspension change about 2 1/2 years ago, now. But for most of that time, the car's been off the road having the engine and gearbox rebuilt. So it seems like I've only had it a short time. Meanwhile, half the guys in Victoria have made the swap, it seems! And here I thought I had an edge. :roll: \

Cheers,
Steve
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