150hp from R1600

[JT68]

Y44 is an H20 casting.

[mattywood]

"Custom Rods, Modified KA 24 pistons, 10.25:1 Comp. 245 deg @ 0.050 cam. Les Collins Extractors, Y44 head, Volvo valves,..."

mattywood,
Few questions and comments, if you could help me out..?
Do you know the weight of the rods? And the pistons? Since a reduction in reciprocating weight can make a huge difference, the KA pistons already will be much lighter than stock roadster pistons, I'm assuming the modifications would have lightend them further (a little shave off the top?).

The compression and cam look to work well together here, normally I would have assumed a 245*@.50" to be a bit big for a street engine, but, I'm thinking the port is a bit restrictive for the cylinder size, and the extra duration gives the air, which will be @ a higher velocity, more time to enter the cylinder giving good #'s down low, but the port still restricting power @ the higher rpm....

Les Collins Extractors? Are those the long tube 4-1 or the curvaceous 4-2-1 that's been shown in a previous thread?

Y44 head?? does that equate to an R16 or H20 or?

Volvo Valves? That's an interesting one....Seen Chevy, Volkswagen, and Ford mentioned in other threads, first time for Volvo (I think) Any details? Valve sizes?

Cheers,
Merry Xmas!

From the guru:

rods weigh 540 gm, pistons are around 410gm with a dish machined into them to get to the right compression

this engine is a pussy cat at low rpm, the package works well together, thats the key

yes it is the 4-2-1 pipes in the extractor factor thread , these are the pipes on this engine, only 1 set was made, it used to run short jack mayes 4-1 when first built. these les collins pipes woke it up everywhere.

Y44 H20 head is the best one around for a pushrod roadster, you cant make much more than 160 HP from a R16 or G15 head, believe me, i have tried. the Y44 H20 should be used in any performance application. the only downside is the weight.( a guy here in aust is working on an alloy version but dont hold your breath)

volvo valves are the correct height, collet grove is in the right spot and are a quality product. 45 mm inlet and 34 mm ex??? they are 8.0 mm stem so some work is needed to make it all function correctly. others with the 11/32 stem have worked just as well.

les collins did some additional porting on this y44 head before its final run on the engine dyno, see the link below to some of his work. he built the engine for the green hornet right here in Aust, greg scott from USA is the owner.

[jarhead]

sweet video. thanks for sharing.

[SLOroadster]

There is one R16 being built this way here in the states. It will hopefully be at Solvang next year. Same head, rods, pistons ect.

Will

[mattywood]

Did they buy Lou's rods?

[SLOroadster]

Did they buy Lou's rods?

I think so. He was going back and forth via email with Lou. It should be a sweet setup once its done.

Will

[RCMike]

One thing that always makes me chuckle in these threads is when HP numbers are mentioned, some people are talking about Wheel numbers, and some people are talking crank. And some are just talking, without anything measuring at all.

It makes apples to apples comparisons particularly difficult.

The bottom line to me on this question, having driven most of the motor types listed throughout this thread, is decide which one fits you and commit to spending the money to build it right.

[JT68]

Is there a way to get 150hp from a 1970 R1600 motor without stroking it or boring it out.?

The funniest thing about this thread is that the whole premise was without boring or stroking.

That leaves turbo and nitrous as the viable options, so the question was really answered in the first few posts:

No, not reliably without spending a fortune.

Arguably ypu could get pretty close with crank HP if there was no spending limit. BULLET PROOF 1600 engine build WITH turbo/nitrous-!sparing no expense! Not a very realistic option IMHO

(So no one gets confused, I think you could measure the engine life in minutes if a stock R16 was subjected to turbo/nitrous to make this power, boom, splat)

[Rdeanc64]

Never thought I would get so many different responses just by asking this question. The engine was supposedly rebuilt about 5,000 miles ago, so what I will probably do when I pull it to do frame up restore is go through it upgrade to a slightly higher performance cam, with roller rockers, webber carburetor, electronic Ignition, electronic fuel pump, new radiator with electric fan, headers with new exhaust system, and install 5 speed I figure just doing those upgrades will cost me around 4,000. And most likely that will only get me to 120hp to the wheels. To me that is a lot of money but I like the idea of keeping original engine. I know that I could get a lot more hp with a swap for the same money. I got time before I start pulling it all apart, who knows I may change my mind.

[greydog]

You will not get 120 hp at the wheels.
The stock 1600 was rated 96 hp at the crank. Figure you'll loose 20% (maybe a little more/maybe a little less) so perhaps a good stock R16 would be 80 hp at the wheels. I'v eseen two dynoed. Both ran well but made less power than this.
You're talking about gaining 40 hp or half again with a mild cam and carbs. that would be great but I'd bet it ain't gonna happen.
The typical 4 into 1 header has not been proven to flow better than the stock manifold so no gain there. The carbs will only provide what the engine can handle (but allow for a bit better tuning). Again, Ignition and trans do not make more power than a well tuned R16 does.
JT and others here will know better but I'd bet 100 hp to the wheels is ambitious for the mods you're talking about. Still a very fun car and with the 5 speed, lots of fun to drive.
Dan

[JT68]

Agree. 120 at the CRANK, would be a 25% increase which is quite ambitious on todays gas without increasing displacement and or compression ratio (hence all the rest of the vigorous banter on the thread!)

The carbs will only add 5,6,7hp, the exhaust 4,5,6,7 hp on a stock engine. Roller rockers won't add anything really, a little less drag,but might help with wear and reliability-- It's really all up to the cam swap and how extensive the head work is.


Stroker is the best option to quickly get to 120'ish+ , and you get all the nice torque increase. Squeezing HP out of the 1.6 gets disproportionately expensive unless you increase displacement instead.

Lite flywheel will help it feel peppier/ accelerate, but doesn't increase the actual HP of course. j

[jarhead]

As an owner of a 1600 with dreams of "starting over" in the next few years, I always enjoy these threads. Great information. Amusing banter. And many ways to skin the cat. Thanks.