roadster painting advice needed

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ed B
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roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

My roadster's paint needs to be re-done and since it is not a show car by any means, I would like to do it myself. As far as I can see the original color was silver (not sure which of the silvers is was), then orange and now black. I am not sure if I will keep the black or change the whole car to another color. I would like to keep the black color, but I hear the stories of how hard black is to paint and maintain. Either way, I think i would leave the engine compartment as it is, which is black. I bought the cyclone wheels and tires from a guy on this site. They were originally black and I painted them red. I really like the contrast with the black car.

Any advice out there for a first time painter?

I was thinking of going to Eastwood for the paint, supplies and tools and also looking at or buying some of their videos. There used to be a lot of auto body supply stores around me but now there is only one. And last time I went there, I was asking for advice and info on doing some painting and got the rude condescending answer, that they call it Body Work for a reason, so I have pretty much written them off.

I see a lot of equipment at Eastwood and thought I could buy a 2 set primer and a paint gun combo. I have a medium size compressor and have a new filter and gage control somewhere. I thought it would be cheaper to do the one coat (old school) rather than a base coat and a clear coat, but I see where Eastwood claims that the two coat process may actually be easier (although a little more money). Also are there recommendations on regular or epoxy primer's? The paint selection at Eastwood does not seem too good. It does not appear that you can match the original colors, or pick any other color you want, you are just limited to a selection of generic colors they have to choose from, from what I can see anyhow.

I've attached a few pix of my car's current condition.

Any advice would be appreciated, except for trying to talk me out of doing it, because I really would like to try it, thanks! :)
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1969 1600
C.Costine
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by C.Costine »

Where did the car come from? Are you pretty sure that it is rust free? You may remove the paint and find that you have a lot of sheet metal repair to do. I have not done much painting. I painted this tractor a few years ago.
901 at Deerfield.jpg
I did lots of research before starting, mostly from the paint and auto-body forum on Yesterday's Tractors. There are some really good and knowledgeable auto-body pros on there. From them I learned to get all of your primer and paint from the paint jobber to insure compatibility. For new metal you use self etching primer, for old metal you use epoxy. After that you use high build primer, in order to be able to sand out all the imperfections. I am in the process of doing the body work on my '67. I have cut out all of the rust and butt welded in new metal. I am nearly done applying and sanding the filler smooth. I am currently in the process of fitting the doors, fenders, hood and trunk lid, trying to get the joints to that elusive 3/16 gap all around. Once I get the parts fitted, I will then remove them and then I will base prime it myself, then apply and sand the primer-surfacer. I will then spray the base coat to the inside and undersides and engine bay, and door jambs, going just around them all to the outside. You should have 3-4 inches on the exterior of all of the panels at this step. I will then apply two coats of clear coat to all of these underside and inside panels. I will then reassemble all of the panels doors etc. and roll it down the road to my neighbor who is a pro. He will shoot the exterior base and three layers of clear coat. I have decided to do clear coat because each coat can be sanded to remove any imperfections. I have bought a bunch of things from Eastwoods, but I have bought my filler from the local jobber. For filler you want your first layer to be short strand fiberglass for strength, then light weight plastic for successive coats. Use Evercoat brand. There is of course a whole lot more to it, and many here who know a whole lot more than I do, but don't be afraid to ask questions. We will have to get together some time.
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located in Chester NH
1967 1600 in restoration
2013 Arctic Cat F-1100 turbo
Ford F-350 6.0
Ford 9000 puller, Ford 960 puller, Ford 901show, Ford 971 worker, Oliver 70 waiting its turn
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fj20spl311
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by fj20spl311 »

Painting can be super labor intensive.
If you decide to leave her black, I would suggest taking it in steps and going for a quickie job the first time around.
By a quickie job, I mean removing the chrome and bumpers, but leaving the doors, hood etc. on the car.
You could prime and paint inside the trunk as a test.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
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ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

C.Costine:
Thanks for the advice and info, this is a good start.
The tractor looks great! Also sounds like you have a good start on the 67.
The car came from the west coast, the state of Washington.
If I sanded everything down and there was still good amounts of primer and paint left and possibly some small areas of exposed metal, could one just use the epoxy primer on the spots and then use the high build primer over everything?
The body looks pretty good to me. The front fenders, although having some small dents, appear to be new replacement ones and are not the originals as they don't have the side light cutouts. The drivers floor had a few pinholes which I welded and then primed and painted (tried to match the original silver) and then but in some sound deadening pads.
There are two through holes in the left rear quarter. One front of the wheel and one in the back of the wheel. I will need to weld some new metal into these areas. Other than that I think the metal will be pretty good. I did not see any blistering, cracks, etc in the car at all.

PS Are you going to Watkins Glen this year? I am going for the first time this year. Will try to be there most of the day Saturday (sept 10, I think).
1969 1600
ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

fj20spl311 wrote:Painting can be super labor intensive.
If you decide to leave her black, I would suggest taking it in steps and going for a quickie job the first time around.
By a quickie job, I mean removing the chrome and bumpers, but leaving the doors, hood etc. on the car.
You could prime and paint inside the trunk as a test.
Thanks Phil. I was planning on removing the front fenders to practice on them, since one has a few dents that need to be pounded out anyhow. I thought I could practice the primer and paint application on these and then leave the rest of the items in place to paint, as you suggest. But maybe I should try the trunk first as you recommend.
1969 1600
C.Costine
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by C.Costine »

My '67 had rust through on the left rear as well. The right side looked good until I took the paint off, then I found that it was worse than the left, but had some crude patching done. The right is usually worse because after a snow storm or a rain the center of the road is dry quicker.
located in Chester NH
1967 1600 in restoration
2013 Arctic Cat F-1100 turbo
Ford F-350 6.0
Ford 9000 puller, Ford 960 puller, Ford 901show, Ford 971 worker, Oliver 70 waiting its turn
ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

C.Costine wrote:My '67 had rust through on the left rear as well. The right side looked good until I took the paint off, then I found that it was worse than the left, but had some crude patching done. The right is usually worse because after a snow storm or a rain the center of the road is dry quicker.
Argh. I guess there is only one way to find out. I won't be doing this right way, still looking for info and researching, while working on the last bits of the mechanicals and some interior work.
1969 1600
kndroy
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by kndroy »

What I'm doing currently is to strip the interior, chrome, windshield and fenders. My paint has to be completely stripped because the current paint is peeling off. I'm doing a section at a time, strip, patching, body work, phosphate treatment, filler, prime. After I get the whole car primed I'll take it to a pro and paint it for me. The nice thing about this method is the painter can tell you how your body work is and send you away until you get it right. Also, make sure you do the inside of the fenders while they are off. Paint outside of fender after you have assembled them. You can purchase a cheap paint gun from priming. I would do a color change and go back to silver but that's a personal choice. The reason I say that is when you drive around and get chips they stand out and the lighter colors are more forgiving and it was originally silver anyway.
C.Costine
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by C.Costine »

kndroy wrote:What I'm doing currently is to strip the interior, chrome, windshield and fenders. My paint has to be completely stripped because the current paint is peeling off. I'm doing a section at a time, strip, patching, body work, phosphate treatment, filler, prime. After I get the whole car primed I'll take it to a pro and paint it for me. The nice thing about this method is the painter can tell you how your body work is and send you away until you get it right. Also, make sure you do the inside of the fenders while they are off. Paint outside of fender after you have assembled them. You can purchase a cheap paint gun from priming. I would do a color change and go back to silver but that's a personal choice. The reason I say that is when you drive around and get chips they stand out and the lighter colors are more forgiving and it was originally silver anyway.

kndroy, good procedure to use the phosphoric acid. I use Rust Mort by SEM. It is expensive but goes a long way. I am doing very similar to you, and my friend down the road with the auto body shop has already said that he will be happy to check my work for me before I shoot the primer.
located in Chester NH
1967 1600 in restoration
2013 Arctic Cat F-1100 turbo
Ford F-350 6.0
Ford 9000 puller, Ford 960 puller, Ford 901show, Ford 971 worker, Oliver 70 waiting its turn
ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

C.Costine wrote:
kndroy wrote:What I'm doing currently is to strip the interior, chrome, windshield and fenders. My paint has to be completely stripped because the current paint is peeling off. I'm doing a section at a time, strip, patching, body work, phosphate treatment, filler, prime. After I get the whole car primed I'll take it to a pro and paint it for me. The nice thing about this method is the painter can tell you how your body work is and send you away until you get it right. Also, make sure you do the inside of the fenders while they are off. Paint outside of fender after you have assembled them. You can purchase a cheap paint gun from priming. I would do a color change and go back to silver but that's a personal choice. The reason I say that is when you drive around and get chips they stand out and the lighter colors are more forgiving and it was originally silver anyway.

kndroy, good procedure to use the phosphoric acid. I use Rust Mort by SEM. It is expensive but goes a long way. I am doing very similar to you, and my friend down the road with the auto body shop has already said that he will be happy to check my work for me before I shoot the primer.
What does the phosphate/Rust Mort do?
1969 1600
ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

kndroy wrote:What I'm doing currently is to strip the interior, chrome, windshield and fenders. My paint has to be completely stripped because the current paint is peeling off. I'm doing a section at a time, strip, patching, body work, phosphate treatment, filler, prime. After I get the whole car primed I'll take it to a pro and paint it for me. The nice thing about this method is the painter can tell you how your body work is and send you away until you get it right. Also, make sure you do the inside of the fenders while they are off. Paint outside of fender after you have assembled them. You can purchase a cheap paint gun from priming. I would do a color change and go back to silver but that's a personal choice. The reason I say that is when you drive around and get chips they stand out and the lighter colors are more forgiving and it was originally silver anyway.
What does the phosphate/Rust Mort do?
1969 1600
C.Costine
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by C.Costine »

ed B wrote:
kndroy wrote:What I'm doing currently is to strip the interior, chrome, windshield and fenders. My paint has to be completely stripped because the current paint is peeling off. I'm doing a section at a time, strip, patching, body work, phosphate treatment, filler, prime. After I get the whole car primed I'll take it to a pro and paint it for me. The nice thing about this method is the painter can tell you how your body work is and send you away until you get it right. Also, make sure you do the inside of the fenders while they are off. Paint outside of fender after you have assembled them. You can purchase a cheap paint gun from priming. I would do a color change and go back to silver but that's a personal choice. The reason I say that is when you drive around and get chips they stand out and the lighter colors are more forgiving and it was originally silver anyway.
What does the phosphate/Rust Mort do?
The Phosphoric acid is a rust converter. It reacts with the rust to form inert iron phosphate. The very popular Por-15 line is mostly phosphoric acid products. They all work very well. The SEM Rust Mort seams to be the one favored by auto body shops.
located in Chester NH
1967 1600 in restoration
2013 Arctic Cat F-1100 turbo
Ford F-350 6.0
Ford 9000 puller, Ford 960 puller, Ford 901show, Ford 971 worker, Oliver 70 waiting its turn
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Gregs672000
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by Gregs672000 »

My preference is Sems Rust Seal because it does not have to be covered. Rust Mort is fine in places you plan to seal, but for any surface that will remain exposed, Rust Seal is the deal! I have places that have remained rust free for 30yrs with just Rust Seal.

Especially on dark colored cars, body work is critical and where you must spend the time. You could put the paint on with a splatter gun and, given enough paint, you could wet sand and cut/buff it to a mirror IF the body work is good. A wobbly mess if it's not! I went through this 30yrs ago... Knowing nothing, going to the auto body supply house and asking questions (go find a friendlier place if they're snobby), meeting the guy who would teach me how to do body work and who painted my car the first time, etc.

My best advice from one amature to another: Realize this is going to take time; know it's worth it. You will develop a feel for the work, and you will get better and better at feeling high and low spots. Use your palm, your finger tips are too sensitive. Check final fills with a light guide coat of black spray can primer and sand... Any lows will show up. You often have to work a large area to take care of a small spot. Use the Evercoat body filler that was suggested... Best I've ever used, will save you tons of sand paper and frustration. You can cut through a lot of BS using an orbital sander, but only for the rough in... Everything else is probably best done by hand with a sanding board. If you can, try to match your panels to each other... Door to front fender, door to rear, so that when painted you don't get a huge change in where the reflection hits as you walk past the car... You will learn how to "head bob" as you look the reflections over (this kind of stuff is not as noticeable on a light colored car by the way! And that's why dark colors are harder). You won't be perfect! Wiping the car with the liquid grease and wax remover (prep sol as i recall) will shine the primer up and allow you to see reflections a lot better so you can check your body work and your reflections panel to panel. Don't ignore the lower rocker panels as they can reflect a lot (I didn't do as good a job here as I should have, that's why I know).

Whether you do a single stage or a base coat clear coat paint system, be sure that you don't go light on the paint... Plan to wet sand and cut/buff the paint, so have enough on there. I prefer a two stage paint, as it is easy to put on a few extra coats of clear. You can fix a lot of terrible paint applications with wet sanding. I did a black car for my friend Tom several years back, single stage (Centari paint). I spent a lot of time getting that car straight. He got a little too eager one night and he shot it himself. When it was dry, it looked like someone had applied the paint with a drywall gun. Doh! It was a lot of work, but I was able to cut and buff that puppy to a fine mirror finish... It was beautiful (Pebbles on this list saw it when it was up for sale several years back. I also did Damn it Bill's black '70, and his wife's '69 car that's metallic blue and its an Earl Scheib paint job!). You will need several stages of sand paper, like 1000, 1500, 2000 grit, a variable speed buffer, some buffing wheels (I like foam, one designed to cut, the other to fine cut, one more for swirl removal) plus 2-3stages of buffing compounds, swirl remover and my favorite wax Eagle One Nanowax. Watch your sharp edges when you sand, and when using the buffer. Avoid using the edge of the buffing wheel, keep it flat. You'll develop a light hand.

If you don't want to shoot it yourself, go talk to a shop like Maaco and the like and see what they would charge to shoot it with a couple extra coats of clear. Be really really nice to the guys, and they will probably take a little extra time for your little gem! These guys shoot paint all day long and usually know their product pretty well. I had a $400 Earl Scheib paint job on my car for years that looked like a $4000 dollar job after I cut and buffed it.

This will be a fun project! You won't get it perfect (even after a dozen cars!) but that's ok... If you're gonna drive it it's gonna get some chips etc, so who cares! But there are a few things that I mentioned that will help you end up with a great result that you will enjoy for years to come. Have fun!
:smt006
Last edited by Gregs672000 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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datsunrides
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by datsunrides »

Black is no harder to spray than any other color. It's the prep below the paint that affects black. If you are not going down to bare metal here is my suggestion, condensed version

Repair any dents etc.
block sand
2K epoxy primer
2k urethane high build
block sand
fix imperfections
2k urethane high build
block sand
top coat, either single stage enamel or base/clear.

Single stage is less expensive as you are only buying the color, but it is not as easy to fix errors. With base/clear you can fix errors in the base before you clear and if you get errors in the clear, you just color sand it out. I would try and find an automotive paint jobber and get the stuff from them. Even the value line stuff they carry is better (for the most part) than Eastwood. For the epoxy and high build you want a gun with at least a 2.0 tip (epoxy) and 1.8 (high build) and a separate gun for color with a 1.2 or so tip and a 1.1 tip for clear. For the primers, harbor freight guns work fine but get a decent gun for the color. Iwata and Sata are awesome guns but $$$$. I use a mid line DeVilbiss and for what I do, it works fine.
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ed B
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Re: roadster painting advice needed

Post by ed B »

Greg and datsunrides,

Thanks a bunch for all the info and encouragement. This is very helpful. Only one bodyshop supplier in our whole area, but maybe if I go in wanting to buy a lot of supplies and armed with some more info and knowledge, I will get better results. I always buy new tools when starting a new project and this one will provide an excuse to buy plenty of them, from pneumatic grinders and cutters to orbital sanders :) :)
PS Has anyone ever used the airpowered board sanders. I was curious how they worked?
1969 1600
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