Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

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Curtis
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:49 pm
Location: Des Moines, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by Curtis »

raympac wrote:Hello Curtis & Phil,
I just got home. I am a late 65 310 (#11042D). I converted to negative ground last year and am using GM (I think) alternator. I am guessing that that is the reason there are so many grounds. The car's electrical system has been worked on by many people over the past 3 decades. I remember back in the early 80's when I got the car that the electrical system was in very poor condition and incomplete. I ended up getting wiring harnesses from 2 different cars at a local junk yard. This got the car working but it went on to have lots of electrical problems. I'll get back out in the garage tomorrow and update you all. Thanks.
ray
So your car falls in to this category as per Rallye.

"65 1500 .SPL310-10000 to end (est. 11124)

Two seats not three as earlier cars. Has opening triangle vent windows, a chrome strip for a trunk handle (but with external trunk hinges), 2 large and 4 small gauges, and individual hood letters. A true 65 would also have 2 suitcase-type (or J-hook type) top to windshield latches, NOT 3 knurled knobs like the 62-64's. A true 65 would also have a large rear interior deck (package shelf) like the 1600's (about 2 1/2 feet deep). The battery would be under the hood, not behind the passenger seat like the earlier 1500's. All 1500's should have small flare fenders with side trim running all the way to the headlight scoop. All 1500's were positive ground and had drum front brakes.(I have seen some late 65's that have discs, but all have been 2nd or later owner cars so as yet I haven't found one I was sure hadn't been converted)."
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
raympac
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by raympac »

Tough day today in the garage. Curtis, I hooked up a line from the fuse block to the "B" terminal on the top of the switch. The other black wire remained "grounded to the body of the fan assy. When powered, it instantly cooked this wire! I tried a 2nd time with the ground to the fan disconnected. I managed to get the power off before it cooked the circuit. The motor made a mournful sound and turned @ 1/4 turn. It hasn't moved since. I re-checked all of the grounds and they seem OK. I think I will re-route the so called ground on the fan assy to the front chassis ground. I will go ahead and dismount the motor again tomorrow and try a bench test.
Phil, I think you have hit the problem. Looking at some old notes, the wipers only had one speed! This was when the car was still positive ground. Curtis, you have described my car accurately. There are 2 seats, 2 top latches, large shelf behind seats, and chrome all the way to the headlights. I changed the car to front discs and moved the battery to the trunk a long time ago. I think I need to start looking for a new wiper motor, from a "66 311, but would this create a problem with the wiper pivots? Maybe I'll drop a note to Mike Spreadbury. He is in Corvallis right? That puts him @ half hour from me! I'll keep you all updated after I get a better look at the wiper motor tomorrow. Thanks to all.
ray
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fj20spl311
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by fj20spl311 »

I would first figure out which two wire are the park mechanism.
They should be shorted together when the motor is NOT in the park position and open when it is in the park position.
I would use a light in series if you don't have an ohm meter. Once you find those two, check to see if one of the other two is grounded to the motor, that would be the ground/negative.... and the last one positive/hot.

Keep all the wire disconnected from the switch. Se if the motor will run with just the ground and hot. It should stop when you disconnect it.

Once you get the motor running, you need to figure out if the park wire go into the hot side or ground side of the wiring.
The later two speed wipers it goes in the ground side.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB
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RBMann
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Location: Kenmore, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: High Windshield-68-70

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by RBMann »

Hi Ray-

I removed my wiper motor to clean and lube it. After reinstalling it would blow the fuse. It would work on the bench but not in the car. One of the wires had a bad solder connection, had come loose and was shorting out against the motor casing. When mounted in the car the casing would be grounded and short out. Re-soldered the connection and the motor works fine now.

Good luck, hope this helps.
RBMann

mechanic on '69-1600(not mine)
raympac
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by raympac »

Hello Curtis, Phil and RB,
Well, I removed the wiper motor today and disassembled it. It is a surprisingly simple device. I did not find any thing resembling the parking mechanism and there were no other internal switches. There were only three wires, as the black one is simply grounded to the case. There is a single red wire externally at the opposite end, probably the power circuit. I bench tested it without the switch and unfortunately I could not make it work no matter the sequence of wires. I think this motor is shot. At this point I would rather change to a five wire negative ground unit. Would any neg ground motor work? Would this be a problem for the wiper pivots? Better yet, is this an opportunity to change over to the later model pivots that are so easy to remove the arms from? The driver side arm is frozen to the pivot. I have tried to remove it before without luck. The passenger side is mildly sloppy and I am unable to get the newer arm I got last year to fit onto the pivot. It just won't go into place, its too tight, the grooved part on the bottom of the arm just will not go onto the pivot. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks,
ray
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Curtis
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Model: 1500/1600
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by Curtis »

First you would need to check the pivot holes against a 66-67. IF they LINE up then maybe you can switch over. You have the cable type drive for your wipers?
Last edited by Curtis on Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
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fj20spl311
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by fj20spl311 »

I have very little knowledge about the 1500s,
You should be able to change over to the later system, its just cutting, welding......LOL
If the spacing is wrong, then you will have to modify the linkage.
510 guys use a Mazda 626 motor from the 80s as its more powerful and cheaper/easier to find. I have been told that some of the other Mazda wiper motors can also be made to work if they are the one without a washer motor included. To use the roadster linkage, you need to modify the roadster motor arm to fit the Mazda Motor. The linkage is pretty simple, so I would suggest going to a recycle yard and see what you can find....maybe take a wiper are to see if you can find one that fits your arm, other wise its just one more thing to adjust.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB
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Curtis
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Location: Des Moines, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by Curtis »

Mazda 626, can't remember the last time I saw one of those.
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
raympac
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:07 pm
Location: seattle,wa

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by raympac »

Hello Curtis & Phil,
Thanks for the info. I'll go ahead and dismount the passenger side pivot as it basically falls apart and check the hole. I remember them being small with a keyway at the top. The system is not cable operated. It uses 2 hollow rods. I think there is an automotive electrical shop here in my new home town, so I may look into just having the motor rebuilt, but having 2 speed wipers would be better. I'll keep you updated. Thanks,
ray
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fj20spl311
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by fj20spl311 »

Curtis wrote:Mazda 626, can't remember the last time I saw one of those.
That may be true,
but you can still buy rebuilt wiper motors for what I think is a good deal....~$60-$80

Try buying a Rebuilt Roadster Wiper Motor.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB
raympac
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:07 pm
Location: seattle,wa

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by raympac »

Hello Phil,
Wow, I was expecting a much higher price, even for just a used motor! Do you have a favorite vendor recommendation for this? Thanks,
ray
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fj20spl311
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Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by fj20spl311 »

Check Rock auto 84 Mazda 626 A-1 CARDONE 431467 {#GA9767345, GA9767345A} Reman Front mount
You do have to adapt your arm....IIRC you need cut some "teeth" in with a small file.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB
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RBMann
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Location: Kenmore, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: High Windshield-68-70

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by RBMann »

I bought a used motor for our '69 from Rallye for $40. It did need a new electrical connector.
RBMann

mechanic on '69-1600(not mine)
raympac
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:07 pm
Location: seattle,wa

Re: Best wiring issue ever!!! Read to launghif anything

Post by raympac »

Hello Phil & RB,
Thanks for that info. I think I'll proceed with searching outa motor locally, and then try Rallye, as they are relatively close by. I'll keep in touch on this, thanks again for the info.
ray
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