Got to ask

[dads311]

Kind of a dumb question but I have to ask. Should the r16 engine sit level front to back and side to side. I have a lot of oil smoke from my new engine and a lot of rocker noise so when I pulled the valve cover to look there was a puddle of oil started running out the back of the cover as soon as I loosened it. The #4 valves were swimming in oil. I have new mounts on engine as well as trans. I think if I can level the motor out some it will help with the smoke but I have to dig deeper into the rocker noise.
I was wondering if anyone else had this level issue and what they did to fix it. When I put a level on the valve cover it is about a quarter bubble off level front to back and even little high on the passenger side. Oh yeah, I am checking this on a level garage floor with the same sized tires all around.
While the engine was still good and warm I also checked and reset the valve lash which helped some but it is still pretty noisy. It sounds like just one rocker/valve but I haven't figured out which one yet. I'm thinking #4 exh. I had this head to the shop twice and the second time when I picked it up I noticed several of the valve stems were different heights above the springs. Some were just barely above the keepers. He told me he had to shim some of the springs to bring the spring pressure up just a bit. I really don't want to but I'm thinking I may have to pull the head and take it to the shop that did the engine work not the same ones that have had the head twice.
Thanks for any suggestions
Mike

[notoptoy]

Do you have the stock transmission, or a 5 speed upgrade? What is the condition of the rear Transmission, and both engine mounts?
If those are OK, and you do not have a transmission swap, then the engine should be relatively level, but it DOES slope down towards the transmission tunnel slightly, mine will slowly leak out the rear passengers side of the head with the valve cover off- but laying the gasket on helps create just enough of a dam so it's not pouring out.
I ask about the transmission swap because that creates the need for a different (correct) transmission cross member to get the engine to fit and be at the proper height - a 5 speed won't fit right with a 4 speed cross member.

[notoptoy]

Also, what are you setting the valve clearances too? I find that slightly tighter (.012) than stock (.014?) will quiet things down nicely.
I would be nervous of different installed valve stem height clearances though, if it were properly machined, that should not be an issue. It sounds like they could have mismatched valve guides, or you have sunken valve seats, or they changed out and mismatched valves, maybe? Something is definitely not right, changing the spring rates should not effect the valve stem height!

[dads311]

Thanks notoptoy. No I am running stock 4 speed. This one will run quite a bit of oil out the driver rear when I loosen the cover.This was a basket case when I got it and I think there were parts from 3 or 4 different cars. So maybe if I can shim the trans up a bit and see about raising the driver side up just a bit it might be closer.

[mraitch]

All the valves (in/out) should be the same height - the only difference might be in the grind of the valve seats.

You mentioned 'smoke - where is that coming from?

If the mounts are correct then the 'level' of the engine is fine'

Typically engine 'level' would be based upon 'spring level' of the car.

[bobd]

I would question the machine shop as to what exactly was done.

Most likely, the seats are cut deeper on some of the valves and the tops of the valve stems were ground down to get the overall installed height equal to the others.

At that point, the valve springs should shimmed to get the installed height of the springs the same .

This would make the spring pressure the same on all valves. If all that was done, you should be ok.

This is pretty normal stuff that machine shops do or I should say did. These days, the machine shop may say the head is bad or the valve seats need to be replaced.

[C.Costine]

Mike, except for a few modern engines that have no oil sump, the engines of pretty much all vehicles slope down to the rear. If they didn't the oil pan would probably be no more than three inches from the ground. It should be impossible for oil to build up under the valve cover because it is supposed to drain down around all of the push rods. You must have some sludge around the number four push rods keeping the coil from draining. The holes are much larger diameter than the rods. Sometimes people use silicone seal to augment gaskets, especially for the valve cover, and pieces of silicone seal will come off and block those passages.

[dads311]

Update: I ended up lifting the engine enough to take pressure off the mounts, loosened the bolts and set it back down and gave it a couple good shoves side to side, tightened the mounts bolts back down and it seems to be much closer to level sided to side and front to back. I think it was sitting high on the passenger side for some reason. No smoke at all unless I let it set and Idle for an extended time. I am much happier about that.
As for the valve/rocker noise it was a bit more complicated but nothing a different head didn't fix. It seems the original head had been milled too much and unevenly. there was ten thousandths difference front to back as well as it was way under the minimum thickness. When I pulled the head there was a spot where the #4 piston had just been kissing the head ever so slightly. I looked at getting the thicker gasket but then thought if I ever had to pull the head for some reason it was going to cost me for another thick gasket. So I found a head on ebay, had the seller mic it for me and took a chance and bought it. He agreed to my price. The head looked like it had just been redone before the car was stripped. No carbon on the valves. Using a known straight edge and a flashlight there was a small area only .001 off. I was happy about that. I pulled each valve and lapped them and got a perfect line around each valve.
So I cleaned it up and put it on the motor and no more valve noise. I have been enjoying driving it this summer. I do have a slight leak at the exhaust manifold but I will fix that this winter. Thanks for all the help.

Mike

[spl310]

Do you have the exhaust brace bracket behind the mount on the driver's side?

[Linda]

Did you lap the valves with the little stick with the suction cup or with a drill?
Linda

[dbrick]

Sid gave me a great observation a few years back. The rocker arm and valve tip will sometimes wear unevenly, so when you insert the feeler gauge, you're bridging these ridges and end up setting the valves much looser than you think.
As far as the oil, it should be draining down and not be piling up alot of oil. I believe there is another drain hole at the rear as well as the pushrod holes, but not 100% sure. 20/50 oil will also drain back slower, especially cold

Ideally, the valve tips should all be at the same level to each other in the head where they meet the rockers, but if the machine shop machined some of the valves deeper than others, they shim the springs to get the proper installed height for the springs to get the right seat pressure, so the valve caps will be higher, they would then grind the valve tops to get the right total installed height above the spring seat to maintain the correct rocker arm geometry. As long as all the valve keepers are fully seated in the spring cap and the oil seal is fully seated on the top of the valve guide, all should be OK.
I have a head off the car in the garage if you need anything measured or a photo for comparison, just PM me

[spl310]

Sid gave me a great observation a few years back.

Crap, someone listened to me. I need to buy a lottery ticket!

[dads311]

spl310 - I do not have that bracket. I guess I better look at getting one. Thanks for the reminder.
Linda - I used a drill to lap them with a short piece of rubber hose.
dbrick - thanks for the info and the offer. I have a head on there now that is working great and the car is running great. I had my machine shop check the rockers when they did the work on the block for the rebuild. They sent my cam and lifters to Tacoma Cam for a regrind back to stock. I didn't take my head to the machine shop because I just had it done at another shop and didn't realize what shape it was in. Live and learn I guess.

Thanks for the replies. I wanted to get this thing back on the road after sitting in pieces for so many years. I spent 2 1/2 years putting it back together and am enjoying driving it and working out the bugs.

Mike

[spl310]

Mike, if you can't find the bracket, get a couple of thick washers - think 1/8" thick - and put that between the motor mount bracket and the block. That will help

[mraitch]

To restate, there is supposed to be a short piece of metal between the driver side engine mount bracket that bolts to the 'header' to transfer 'flex' to the exhaust pipe.

If your header and motor mount has the captive bolts for this, I have the proper connection for $5 + shipping from Van NUys, CA